I was one of the lucky chosen few to be sent a Lulzbot TAZ6

@Elf_Tablet You are sounding like a petulant teenager stomping off from the argument when no-one is taking your side. There is a very good reason for that, in that you are confusing NDAs with embargoes, neither of which are in any way harmful. NDAs help companies - even open source ones - handle the research they have paid for in a financially beneficial manner. Embargoes do something similar but with short term effects.

If we took your model, Ultimaker and Lulzbot to name but two would rapidly go out of business. That’s a fact of commerce today.

Even in what I refer to as Economy 2.0 - i.e. the open source business model - companies have to be able to defend their IP otherwise they end up spending loads of money on research only to find some other company cloning their product without having to pay for the research. That makes no sense at all.

I think this confusion really reaches into the heart of what open source for hardware really means. Unlike software, where a simple mistake can be correct by a few strokes of the key, a hardware “bug” can mean throwing away a set of tooling that cost several thousand monies to produce. You need a way to recoup the losses made in research.

Also, unlike the software world, open source hardware rarely has volunteers working on tweaking the designs and bla for the simple reason that the whole concept is currently unworkable in hardware.

In software one can upload a patch. compile in a matter of minutes, test and then throw it out. In hardware, that “patch” might represent many hours of printing or machining, and will often require tools and materials that volunteers do not have access to or can afford.

The idea of open hardware, in my opinion, is not to give the hardware away “free”, but to allow you to tweak, fiddle and tinker with the product you have purchased or have made for yourself from those designs.

If, for example, you bought an open hardware washing machine, you could change the wash cycles to suit your particular family, create your own wash cycles, modify it to use ultrasound or whip cream. It all starts, though, with you buying the machine in the first place. How was that machine developed? That’s right, by spending money on development, which they now need to recoup.

There is nothing wrong in owning IP. There is nothing wrong with making a decent profit. There is nothing wrong with keeping some secrets within your business. If you are smart, however, you give your customers every scrap of data they need to maintain and befiddle the products they now own to their heart’s content. That’s the most important part of open hardware. Empowering the buyer with all the info and then letting them actually fiddle.

There is no money to be made in throwing away your IP and then letting your competition take it all at no cost. In that crazy world, no research beyond the hobbyist level can ever be undertaken.

All in all, you need to re-think your idea of open hardware, as do many people.

Stomping? child?

I think you need to brush up on your interpretation and usage of language… also it may be a good idea to actually read what is said, then perhaps next time you won’t come off as being exactly the thing you decide to chirp in and accuse someone else of being.

At the very least I’ve had a reason to write what I have, what’s your big contribution? “WAAA”?

…and I’m not going to going to continue this kind of discourse here, I’ve said, clearly, all that needs to be said on the subject from point of from my point of view, any further explanation or justification needed is entirely down to the inability of the questioner to comprehend,… and you’re more than welcome to claim I’m running away (which is kinda childish on it’s own), but as I’ve stated elsewhere I don’t involve myself in playground hairpulling, which seems to be your entire motivation for posting.

@Elf_Tablet Having read your masterful prose and considered your cogent arguments, I have to concede that you do indeed hold the higher ground and aspire to eventually achieve the ability to compose such scintillating polemics of the nature you have proffered here today.

I’ve never seen someone so upset over nothing.

He’s out and this thread is not really valuable besides being a good example of the kind of pissing match we don’t want here so it’s closed.