Has FDM submerged in a cooling fluid ever been done? A printer submerged in something, or printing into a container that with a pump kept the fluid level at like .2mm from the layer being printed. fluid temp control allowing different materials, also limiting fire danger from print ignition, maybe? I dunno, just a weird thought. some people submerge their entire motherboard in mineral oil to cool every component. Also most synthetic fibers use some kind of bath process that imparts beneficial material qualities to them. So not necessarily water but something that added to the industrial process and resulted in a desirable material change to the filament? It would maybe limit issues from unstable air temp and flow? making the prints cooling a much more stable environment? a bath up to the last layer printed at the same temp as the heated bed? Not suggesting any home printing application, again just a weird thought.
mechanics would be an issue for many printers, it could be tried with a delta though quite easily… just printing into a pyrex dish as the build plate and a small pump on an arduino or something adding a set amount of fluid per layer to a geometrically vertically uniform object that could test materials interaction. magic vertical layer strength, as strong as horizontal layers from promoting chains of polymers to wrap up and around layers above and below, using a fluid saturated with specific ‘stuff’, maybe?
If you’re going to do that, it seems awfully tempting to make the fluid photopolymerizing and use a UV light rather than filament and have yourself a stereolithography printer rather than FDM.
I can think of a few reasons why this is a tough slog, but the biggest is you’re soaking a somewhat porous part with liquid that will take forever to drain out. Water will want to corrode and short electronics. I don’t think you necessarily want to be heating oil. I’m certain that more energy will be consumed to heat the liquid. Many liquids will try to creep up to the build layer with capillary action and likely interfere with layer bonding. If you’re sure there is an upside, try it out, but be aware of the gotchas.
because then I wouldn’t be trying to find something uniquely beneficial in the FDM process, I wouldn’t be thinking at all. Sheesh man, your snarky ‘your stupid for thinking about stuff’ attitude sucks. it is hurtful, if that is what you intended nicely done your a pro jerk.
@AlohaMilton who are you replying to? I don’t see anyone being rude.
The “liquid temp control bath” has been proposed before but the big issue is ending up with trapped fluid inside the part. (Plus, you know, the hassle of dealing with liquids in the printer.) Another idea that has been proposed is a denser gas like CO2 or argon.
MIT has made a pretty cool printer that used a syringe to object epoxy into the middle of a gel bath. The epoxy is neutrally buoyant and is supported by the gel as it cures solid. So you can print any overhang type geometry. That’s a nice benefit to printing into a liquid of similar density to the print material, if you can manage that.
I love crazy ideas! I say try it. A few years ago I saw a video of a printer w a hypodermic needle printing in a clear cup of gelatin. They were doing it for different reasons… they did a crazy model of thin “wire-like” model and hand coded the gcode so no slicing into layers. It would move the z as fast as x and y. Really cool to watch. The gelatin acted as support and washed away easily. Pretty neat since it made something possible that wasn’t before.
For spiral prints, there may be a benefi to liquid cooling. No capillary action and you could go faster than normal without sag, which sometimes is a problem.
Carl Bass showed me a metal print done with an off the shelf welder. He said heat / cooling was the big problem. I suggested printing under water w a pump to cool the liquid. He stopped in his tracks and said “that might work”. No, I haven’t tried it. Theoretically, you could raise the liquid level so you wouldn’t have to submerge everything at the beginning.
@Ryan_Carlyle you know who, John Bump the snark troll there. seriously wtf you dont get sarcastic BS comments assuming you don’t even know what SLA is. you like obfuscating? that’s unfortunate given how smart you are, very counterproductive to your better talents.
that said, thanks for taking the thought seriously and replying with the actual information i asked about.
“has anyone tried” “just a thought” mean nothing when someone wants to imply others are stupid.
@brian_alley fuck off asshole, your concept that the internet is for you to behave like an aggressive teenager with no life experience to see the damage to innovation and progress and society that attitudes like yours cause.
@Brook_Drumm thanks, for being like the only person here that actually takes the time to read think and respond without an agenda of boosting the most negative and aggressive immature aspects of their personality.
@AlohaMilton John Bump didn’t say anything rude or out of the ordinary here. It was a reasonable technical comment. You must be reading something into it that isn’t there.
Let me try to help you out a little. Please take this as well-intentioned. What I’ve observed is that you pretty consistently look for the most hostile possible interpretation of what anybody says. It’s making you upset and then YOU’RE initiating fights that no one else intended.
Yeah, a lot of people are jerks online, but this is a pretty chill and troll-free group here. From where I’m standing, it looks like you’re the guy picking fights over nothing, and I think it’s based on simple misreading of what kind of tone people intend when they comment. Assume good intent first, ask clarifying questions when in doubt, and I think you’ll find this to be a much more friendly place than you think right now.
@Ryan_Carlyle that is rediculous the guy described SLA in a demeaning and sarcastic way, not implying but blatantly saying what I described was from a lack of knowledge. it was not a technical ‘question’ or a response to my question it was a statement that my thought was just SLA, and I poorly uneducated in the methods of additive manufacturing. whatever, I have not once ever responded in a know it all or snarky sarcastic way here I have been genuine and positive in every post, I have replied with anger as this place degenerates into a social status shithole like the reprap forums, with only those with economic interests trolling it every 10 minutes, creating social groups around their projects and behaving like a bunch of teenagers. I dont repost much spam, I post things that I think of or make that I hope will help others move forward, even if only through seeing a mistake I make.
I have no idea why you’re supporting the BS, or suggesting I initiate arguments for replying to those trying to bring the conversation level to a teenager in highschool.
over it, forget i asked I will find another forum or just talk to people in private messages about additive manufacturing, if its going to be so rediculous just to ask a SIMPLE FUCKING QUESTION. get sarcastic BS and personal attacks back for asking about submerging thermoplastics that for 50 years in textiles have developed solutions methods of improving material qualities. what fucking ever.
@AlohaMilton Dude, you’re proving me right. You’re reading hostility where there isn’t any, and going wild about really minor stuff. John Bump didn’t say ANYTHING remotely like what you’re claiming. He wasn’t being sarcastic or making personal attacks. Why are you taking it that way?
I really want to help you here, but if you’re going to lash out at everyone, you’re probably going to get yourself banned. Which would be unfortunate, because you bring some good ideas and designs to the table.
I have to be really clear and say that 9/10ths of the negative behavior here has been YOU overreacting and escalating. The only exception is the one comment by Brian Alley, which came after you initiated this whole thing by taking offense at an innocent comment. While Brian was rude, he had a point – you’re being wildly oversensitive.
You need to take a deep breath, log off for a while, and come back when you’re willing to recognize that this hostility doesn’t exist until you create it.
I don’t want to feed any fire here. If I’m reading a post, I try to ignore emotion and look at the question to find value.
If I’m writing a post, I try to remove emotion.
When I see people (on either side) inserting emotion, I encourage all to give everyone a pass for that emotion.
Really thick skin helps.
Never responding to the emotional parts that people understandably show from time to time always let’s the emotion dissipate.
I’ve seen people who apparently hate me become friends when I accept the criticism, swallow my pride, and acknowledge their point. We can disagree on conclusions and agree to foster a culture where it is not only safe to throw crazy ideas at the wall, but let negative energy die quickly.
Great things can happen in cultures like this. People must be safe to bring oppositional ideas up against yours. Great teams ignore stuff like experience, book knowledge, titles, past success or failures… the ideas must be weighed with data eventually. But brain storming occurs with different rules- no data necessary. We welcome new approaches, untested theories, and even testing old conclusions.
I get excited just thinking about having a team that will feel free to question my decisions! But I have to take ownership to create and maintain the culture in which this can thrive.
Btw, a senior VP at Intel taught me these things and made me read a bunch of books that prove this out. He had so many personal stories of very uncomfortable meetings and challenges, all of which resulted in better product. One that stands out is when he challenged Bill Gates in person… Bill was pissed! But if he didn’t challenge him and the CEO of Intel had ever found out he backed down and kept silent, he would have been fired on the spot. The CEO stood there and witnessed the whole thing… it wasn’t a problem. He was playing by the “Intel rules”.
90% of negative comments are from me huh? Your jumping into a situation and demanding the person feeling the most emotion stop and adopt yours or be ostracized.
If RC is a mod, and that was a legitimate threat to ban me for not liking OBVIOUS sarcasm that was totally dismissing of my original post, then cya, bye, ugh what a shitty mod and a lame marketing channel for certain peoples projects.
fine i’m 90% of all the bad here and will leave, have fun those that I got along with.
all for asking a simple innocent question, because some mods like this to be a highschool playground not a college library. Sarcastic dismissive comments, totally supported by Ryan just not for his posts!
It really wasn’t sarcasm, though. (Hard to tell on the internet sometimes, since there’s no tone of voice.) What I read was that he was pointing out that if you’re willing to deal with a vat of liquid, (possibly weird chemicals per your idea to do something to optimize the polymers) it’s not much of a stretch to go to SLA, which is faster and higher resolution than FDM. It’s a perfectly valid point to raise – the main downside to SLA is dealing with liquid resin, so there’s a very relevant discussion here on whether the benefits of a liquid bath justify combining the downsides of FDM with some of the downsides of SLA.
Mod here. Can’t say anyone is breaking the rules per say but let’s just keep it cool:-) If @AlohaMilton feels like removing a comment/comments from the post that is up to him.
Just remember people have different senses of humor. I’m by no means an expert. Just someone who can intervene if need be.
No, I haven’t tried it. Theoretically, you could raise the liquid level so you wouldn’t have to submerge everything at the beginning.