Printing NinjaFlex on a nop head  Mendel90 After lots of trial and error I'm

Printing NinjaFlex on a @nop_head Mendel90
After lots of trial and error I’m starting to get some pretty good results with NinjaFlex (even on complex shapes like the Android below) and I thought I’d share my settings to help others get a starting point because for some reason there seems to be a lot of strange advice out there which didn’t match my experiences at all.

Intro
NinjaFlex seems to be a really nice product, its stretchy, compressible and yet amazingly strong. It reminds me a bit of the soft silicone cases you get for mobile phones but its not quite the same.

How is it different to PLA/ABS when printing?
The first thing you will notice is you have the opposite problem to usual when it comes to adhesion to the bed. Instead of having to use heat, hairspray, glue and things like that to try and get your print to stick you will find yourself trying to get it to not sick as hard so you can remove it afterwards! In my case plain glass and zero heat worked perfectly. I learnt the hard way after wasting a few sheets, DO NOT use Kapton, you will never be able to get it off afterwards!

What about temperatures?
As I said above, no bed heat is needed. For the extruder its recommended that you use temps between 210c and 225c, however I found that with the geared spring loaded extruder on my Mendel 90 those temperatures were a non starter. The issue appeared to be that the flexibility of the raw material meant it was difficult to apply pressure in the hot end and it would simply squidge/buckle up and often get stuck. However increasing the temperature up to 240c completely solved the problem, resulting in a reliable extrude every time.

Retraction
One of the pieces of advice I saw quite often was “don’t use retraction with NinjaFlex” accompanied by photos of really stringy prints from people that didn’t use retraction. I can only think this is aimed at people with Bowden style extruders or something like that(?) because I cranked up the retraction both in distance and speed on my Mendel and got far better results. One of the issues is the squidginess of the NinjaFlex accompanied by the slightly higher heat means it tends to dribble. At the moment I’m running a 3mm retract (prime/suck) at 40mm/s and as you can see from the photo its achieving quite good results. I need to experiment and find out what the sensible limits on my Mendel are as faster and further seems to be the way to go.

Flow
The other thing I noticed was I was getting waaay too much flow. I set up my slicer with the measured raw material diameter (2.85mm in my case) and it just wasn’t right at all. I’m not sure why NinjaFlex is like that, maybe its due to expansion during heating? At the moment I’m down to a flow tweak of 0.9 and I may even lower it a tad more. (Interestingly enough I noticed by chance that if I had kept the diameter in the software set at 3mm the flow would have been much closer to correct. I do wonder if the manufacturer is aware of the expansion and hence made the material undersized deliberately, that would make sense as it would give beginners a better chance.)

Starting
One thing I did notice which caught me out at first is NinjaFlex is a bit of a slow starter. Due to its compressibility you need wind the extruder quite a bit before you get any material coming out. I found personally that heating up the hot end and turning off the motors so I could hand crank it around a couple of times before a print helped, the other option was to print plenty of skirt loops so you get some flow before you start printing your actual print.

Final thoughts
Over all it seems quite an easy material to manage, in the Mendel 90 anyway. If you are having trouble getting started I found starting off with thicker layers such as 0.3mm made things easy. Once I got the settings closer I then dropped down to 0.2mm.

Anyway I hope this helps you guys out as it took me a while to get things going and at one point I almost threw the towel in, but I’m glad I didn’t as its really cool stuff :slight_smile:

Great info but I wouldn’t put anything “Patent Pending” through my open source printers.

Great writeup! Thanks for the info, will help for when I get a non-bowden setup and try this stuff :wink:

I never even thought of it like that @nop_head , interesting point…

Oh, purely for open source reasons @nop_head ?

So, @Fenner_Drives is trying to use patents and lock down a part of an industry that is only thriving because some other patents expired? I don’t know about you guys, but i think that’s pretty fucked up.

  1. more info @Thomas_Sanladerer ? What are they locking down?

  2. I know a guy who designs machinery and another that has designed a “builders tool” which they have both patented…
    The tool has cost this guy over $250,000 to develop… The machine guy has spent more like a million on it…

They’ve spent what I’d call a small fortune and they’re expected to literally give it away? I contribute my TIME to open source when I can but, isn’t that different? How much have ninjaflex spent to get this going? And I don’t mean to be rude but, how much is spent on designing a different model of reprap/3d printer?

@Jarred_Baines as hard as i tried, i couldn’t find any published patent on Ninjaflex. But they are claiming a patent pending on their filament, which will no doubt means that the patent protects some part of the filament itself. Which, in turn, means that they they will have the exclusive rights to some part of that flexible filament.
Depending on how broad the patent turns out, it will (best case) either keep competitors from making filament with some exactly identical property, or (worst case) grant them a legal monopoly on flexible filament and/or other filament types.

And i’m not saying they should give it away, in fact they are free to charge any amount of currency for their products. But they are not the first ones to offer such a flexible filament, yet they try to claim (some portion of) the “invention” for themselves and will inevitably use that against legitimate competition.
Stratasys managed to oppress the market for so long with their patents and only because some of those core patents finally expired, 3D printing suddenly became accessible to thousands of new users.
Yes, patents are part of the game, and as Bre Pettis already stated after they started applying for new patents with Stratasys, don’t hate the player, hate the game. But 3D printing only became what it is today because the game had a tiny nook that the player couldn’t control. I’d hate to see players claim the field even before this round really got going.

_<
Damn its hard to know “where to stand” on these debates…

On one hand they’re protecting their investment, if I’d spent “x” dollars developing a new car that has jets instead of wheels, I wouldn’t want people cough(China) making my hard work worthless, and not allowing me to cover the cost of inventing it, by making the same thing with cheaper labour and materials. Why would you buy stratasys printers when you can get a (insert cheap, but quality printer name) for a LOT less?

If stratasys are spending millions each year on coming up with new things and the opposition is selling them before stratasys can for a lot less, why would you buy from stratasys?

I was looking at a wanho printer for a long time… Its a makerbot copy, like 1/3 of the price - although they can sell it for that much because they have no losses to recoup and have done no research compared to makerbot themselves…

Its hard…

Well, the open source community has its own mentality. Private folks and companies alike share the knowledge that they worked hard for, but in turn the rest of the community does the same. Those who are good at manufacturing physical products come in and make them without having to pay license fees to a patent holder, which leads to competition and therefore lower prices and eventually higher-quality products. What goes around comes around.
It’s a wholly different approach to proprietary-this and patented-that, but in the end it’s a somewhat more efficient process and one that can achieve much more than a single company could.
In the software world, the GPL brutally enforces that open-source software is only used in ways that always feed (at least a tiny bit) back into the community. We could really use something like that for physical products as well.

Yeah, it IS amazing how quickly we catch up… well… not really! it makes perfect sense doesn’t it!

  • I dare say that we will overtake stratasys’ engineers in the coming years - What can a small team accomplish that the whole world of open-source enthusiasts can’t?

I’d just like to add that I have a successful hardware company based solely on open source but it is indeed complicated. I ended up using a non-commercial Creative Commons license to discourage knock-offs. I intend to open up the licenses even more as models get revised and the threat of copy-cats lessen as models get older. I am pretty liberal with any requests from the community - especially schools, non-profits, and hacker spaces. While I understand both views, I actually think going forward IP will matter less and overall user experience will matter more separating the men from the boys.

I am completely against patents AND practices that stifle innovation!!
Brook

But the real question is would you recommend ninja flex to other printer enthusiasts

1.75 was a complete failure on my machines… I’ll try a mod but no success yet. Too flimsy.

@Brook_Drumm yes luckily the NopHead Mendel 90 is 3mm. I dont think i would want to try 1.75mm, my guess is that would be really difficult to work with.

@Ethan_Hall I would recommend it to other people with a NopHead Mendel 90. I can’t speak for other printers as I have no experience. As @Brook_Drumm said if you have a 1.75mm I can imagine it would be much harder to get to work.

Not sure if anyones still reading this but I recently tried a couple of other filaments. TPE Flexible by Orbi-Tech (which I just didn’t get on with) and Polyflex by Polymakr which blew all the others away. For me Polyflex was better than the others including NinjaFlex. It worked first time, repeatedly gave good prints with no issues at all and had fantastic print quality.

@Ashley_Webster are you using 1.75 or 3mm filament? The Mendel90 uses 3mm which helps prevent buckling.