Sigma R17 or UM3 (or UM3 Extended) I need to add a printer to

3D Printing
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Sigma R17 or UM3 (or UM3 Extended)
I need to add a printer to my “farm” and I’m stuck. I know pretty much what I want in terms of features:

#1 - I need good soluble support capabilities. I get a lot of orders needing supports and I’m sick of the removal process. My current printers can’t do good PVA, so I’m really interested in the UM3 that apparently does it like magic.

#2 - I’d like to increase my printable volume, which is currently at most 250x210x200mm. Not a must, but it’d be a good bonus, so the UM3 Extended is looking a front runner.

#3 - It needs to be a workhorse as it’ll probably be running 24/7.

#4 - It needs to work out of the box; I’m pretty good technically but have zero time to fiddle, so I’m looking for something that’ll be printing within an hour of unboxing and needs minimal manual intervention/calibration.

#5 - I have the budget to pay for the right machine (up to $5k), but I don’t want to pay over the odds, and this is where the UM3 loses ground…

The UM3 Extended seems to tick all the boxes, and I’m sure it’s a great machine, but it’s almost £2000 more than the BCN Sigma R17, which ticks a lot of those same boxes. OK, it’s only 10mm more in Z, not 100mm, and I’m uncertain about its performance with PVA (@Thomas_Sanladerer mentioned concerns about the “always on” second extruder in his recent unboxing) but damn, £2000 buys a lot of filament, heck, I could almost buy two BCNs for the price of one UM3E. The “standard” UM3 is only £1000 more than the BCN, but it actually slightly less build volume than my current max, which seems like a step backwards…

So, which do I go for, or is there another option I’m missing?

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R17 is still very new, I’d suggest waiting for a few reviews to come out. If you have time until the end of the month, you’ll be able to make a more informed purchase decision.

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Sigma!

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point #1 : fail for just about any home machine, it is the filament, not the machine… PVA sucks, or fiddle with the HIPS… if you are serious go with the new stratasys f123. that Really works! = PRO machine, you Cannot even compare with these toys… otherwise I would go with the leapfrog bolt.

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Thanks @Thomas_Sanladerer I hoped you’d pitch in after watching your unboxing… :slight_smile:

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Hmm tough choice

We have a Sigma from previous rev, bought back in July, and an Ultimaker 3. I mention this because I’m assuming the Sigma R17 fixes the annoyances I have with it.

Our sigma has really bad jamming problems caused by a faulty hot end design. I believe the latest revision fixes it with some thermal paste on the heatbreak. I’m also not a fan of the extruder itself, which I’m not sure has been revised for R17. Kept digging gouges in the filament which might have been related to the extruder jamming.

The sigma also is a little annoying to level because of the build plate not always seating properly in it’s kinematic mounts. The setup can take a while as a result. Also more “fiddly” in that there’s not an automatic setup like the UM3.

I find the UM3 to be a nicer user experience than the Sigma. The active leveling is very nice and easy to use. It also has a webcam and Wifi which can be very nice for remote printing and monitoring. I did have some issues with wifi but the tech support helped me resolve it and hopefully this was a fluke with a first batch printer.

That said the sigma is a very nicely built printer with some great feature improvements. I like how they have linear rails everywhere as well. I do have an issue where one of my X belts rubs and twists awkwardly which would likely lead to a premature failure, but could be just something with my machine.

The sigma is also louder by a significant amount than the Ultimaker. Both from the cooling fan (which may be improved in R17) and the rattling of the purge buckets

If I had to suggest one I’d go with the UM3 simply because of the user experience and the established Cura/Ultimaker ecosystem.

If money is more of a concern and you can deal with some fiddling, get the Sigma R17

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Sigma :muscle:

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Hi @Mike_Kelly_Mike_Make thanks for the detailed comments, useful to hear from someone with both machines. I guess a lot then depends upon how much of the niggles you’ve had has been fixed in the R17 model (if any).

I guess to be honest my heart is saying UM3; I’ve not seen anywhere near as many “moans” about the UM3 as I have the Sigma, although to be fair, again I don’t know how many of those moans no longer apply to the R17.

Let’s see what Thomas has to say when he completes his review… :slight_smile:

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Have you tried E3D Scaffold, or an similar modified PVA? It might open up your options.

I’m saying that with having tried it myself yet.

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Hi @Jon_Stern I’ve seen Scaffold and would like to try it, but I’ve not got a reliable enough dual extruder (in terms of not oozing). If it works well, it might make any decent dual extruder machine an option (e.g. the Sigma) without the worries of PVA cross-linking.

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@Jon_Gritton yeah I’m curious how much the R17 fixes everything. I just ordered some replacement hot ends because apparently that was one of the major fixes in it. Hopefully it gets our sigma into a more reliable machine, I’m very curious what Tom finds with it.

You certainly won’t be disappointed by the UM3. Especially if someone else’s checkbook is paying for it :slight_smile:

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I would suggest you to have a look at the Anton Mansson YouTube channel. He’s reviewing the Sigma and also has experience with the previous model https://www.youtube.com/user/AMID2D3D/videos