Wondering if anyone can shed some light on what the pros/cons are between Kapton heated beds and regular PCB heated beds?
I believe that one of the cons with kapton heaters is the lower melting point of the kapton insulation, and the main con with the pcb heaters is the high resistance and potential warping issues from going through multiple thermal transitions. If you account for the issues that each heater faces, the effects on prints should be negligible.
Neither kapton nor epoxy in PCBs melt. Char, yes. Embrittle, certianly.
If you had a film type heater melt, it wasn’t kapton doing the melting. Kapton itself is good to 400c. The adhesives used (sometimes) are another story.
Links to this magical kapton heater? I want to use it in our paste extruder… Low temp needs here.
@Brook_Drumm Not sure what shape/size/power you’re looking for, but it sounds like handlebar warmers might be a good fit. http://www.amazon.com/E-Bro-Universal-Motorcycle-Motorbike-Handlebar/dp/B00NM9WYGY/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0S4AN2DWW038MVR0E14E
You can also find shops on Aliexpress that will make custom kapton or silicone heaters.
For kapton heaters suitable for heated platforms, trinity labs had the best selection, but they shut down. Makerstoolworks still has a large one. Nobody else I can think of ATM is still selling them for 3DP use.
Oh, also Ultibots, and there are some sellers on eBay too.
Awesome! Thanks. Buying now…
Wow, handlebar warmers, who knew that existed. Gotta be useful for something!
I thought those guys only got up to about 50C, or do you just crank up the voltage?
@paul_wallich They’re 10-15W at 12V for about 100cm^2.
That’s low for an HBP, which is usually closer to 25-30W for that area, though if you double-layer them and wire in parallel, it should be just about right.
They would also have about the right power/area ratio if you ran them around 16-18V, or if you wired the pair in series to run off 24V. Of course, they’re not intended to be used at that voltage or temperature, so no guarantees that they would hold up. The substrate material looks like PET instead of Kapton, and the adhesive may be acrylic instead of the silicone adhesive you would want.
I’ve seen some that look like they’re embedded in silicone, but don’t know what grade.
I also have fantasies of just running a whole spool of silicone-insulated wire zigzag across a bed and taping the blazes out if it with kapton or clamping it with a piece of something,
@paul_wallich The ones embedded in silicone are called silicone heaters. I mentioned them above.
The thing with wire has been done too, but instead of silicone insulation, it was done with nichrome heating element wire, which is usually uninsulated, but can also be found with a thin layer of fiberglass insulation.
If I want something I know will perform, I’ll spend the money and go with industrial quality heaters. Watlow.com
I’ve been dreaming of http://watlow.com/products/heaters/coil-heater-cable-heater.cfm for a nozzle setup. But still not as cheap as a cartridge.
@Whosa_whatsis
Ah. I didn’t follow the link. I have some things that were sold as 50C heaters suitable for handlebars, about the same size but embedded in what seems to be a much floppier plastic. (And nichrome is such a pain to work with, which is why I imagined copper – although UL wouldn’t approve, the fancier insulations would hold up.)
But what’s annoying is that almost whatever you do that’s not really expensive the transfer of heat from the heating element to the bed is mediocre.
I’m thinking of insulating below my buildplate with either fiberglass or melamine foam. There was a mention somewhere the “magic eraser” products are melamine foam based and would work well as a conformable hot-end insulation. It doesn’t decompose till you get it in the neighborhood of
345 °C (653 °F), more than I’m likely to print at.
For insulating the bottom of the platform, I’ve found that corrugated cardboard or a few layers of paper towel works better than any of the fancy insulation materials designed for that purpose. In particular, the adhesive backings don’t stand up to the combination of heat and gravity for very long.
We’re planning to use a heated bed in combination with aluminum, so warping won’t be an issue.
I am wonder though which one tends to heat up faster - PCB or Kapton? (we have yet to test)
Overall, which would you go with to use in combination with an aluminum bed?
I’ve also seen the MK3 heated beds, but they’re fairly expensive and I think using a Kapton/PCB in combination will produce the same results…?